Saturday, April 24, 2010

Arizona Law - Constitutional?

Before we get into this immigration law I'd like to take a moment and give my personal thoughts on immigration. My solution to the Hispanic illegal alien problem is very simple. Armed troops with authority to shoot anyone crossing the border at any place other than an authorized check station. We do this in other police actions to control movement half way around the world. Surely our own borders should be no less a priority. This would be very effective. You only have to step over a few dead bodies before you reconsider your method of entering this country.

Second, we need to make it MUCH easier for immigrants to enter this country to work as productive members of society. I am not against immigration. It is what makes this country strong. I am against illegal aliens crossing our border damaging our social services and creating a drain on our nation.

Now to the Arizona law.

I have two issues with this law that I believe violate your constitutional rights.

1. The law allows police officers to stop and question anyone they "have reason to believe" may be in the country illegally. What could this possibly mean in Arizona other than a hostile environment for anyone of Hispanic dissent. It is very plausible that a single individual driving to work could be stopped multiple times for simple having brown skin. This is the Hispanic version of "driving while black". This is not acceptable.

2. This law requires all individuals to carry on their person documentation showing their immigration status. This could mean a green card for an immigrant, or a social security card or birth certificate for a citizen. The problem with this is that it places the burden of proof on the accused. Rather than the principle accepted by the Supreme Court since the very inception of our country as a the standard of guilt.

This second point brings to mind the gestapo asking you for your papers. You have a right in this country under the 4th amendment to a reasonable degree of privacy and security in your person. In my opinion this law is a clear violation.

Some have criticized my opinion as hypocritical as I want to shoot people crossing the boarder with out due process. Depriving them of their life without a trial constituting a violation of their 5th amendment. To these people I retort that those crossing the border are not citizens of the United States, and therefore not protected by the bill of rights. However I will concede that it may be best to claim a few hundred feet this side of the border as military base property, thereby making a trespass an invasion.

7 comments:

DeadMule said...

Great blog post!!!

Mookie said...

"This law requires all individuals to carry on their person documentation showing their immigration status. This could mean a green card for an immigrant, or a social security card or birth certificate for a citizen. The problem with this is that it places the burden of proof on the accused. Rather than the principle accepted by the Supreme Court since the very inception of our country as a the standard of guilt."

Well techinically this particular section, is redundant to already longstanding existence of our federal law that immigrants/visitors are to carry their green cards and/or other relevant immigration information with them at all times.

That being said, your first example I pretty much agree with the whole driving while black analogy. It is my belief that if implicated in a crime that officers should not be prohibited from asking the status of a persons immigration, like many cities have gone the way of.

So you have your basic solution to the crossing of the border issue. I'm pretty much okay with that. Now, about those who overstay their visas, or those already here illegally...how would you propose to solve THAT problem?

All In said...

Yes Mook. Happy Birtday yesterday, BTW. Yes, immigrants are required to carry a green card. What if you are a citizen who happens to be brown. Do you you need to carry your birth certificate to prove you are here legally, otherwise be subjected to continual harassment.

I agree with anything else, if you violate a law, however minor, authorities should be allowed to verify your immigration status. I just don't want the color of a person's skin to be sufficient "reasonable suspicion" to initiat the stop.

As for the those here illegally, I'm far less concerned about them. I just want to stop the bleeding for now. I'm okay with a path to citizenship, or sending them back. I don't too much care. But until you stop the flow into the country all discussions about those here are mute.

Mookie said...

" What if you are a citizen who happens to be brown. Do you you need to carry your birth certificate to prove you are here legally, otherwise be subjected to continual harassment."

Again, I dont see it as a primary reason to pull someone over....however any citizen for instance, if driving is technically required to carry a state issued drivers license (which in its official form can only be obtained by a citizen having shown proof of their identity as one to begin with. And I rarely leave the house without such ID on me anyways, so technically I do have my "papers" on me at all times anyways.

Overall I'm with you. I think AZ is going about the right idea with the wrong method.

All In said...

What if you are walking down the sidewalk. Are you required as a citizen to be ready to prove you are citizen. Driving is obviously different.

If you don't have your birth certificate with you be prepared to have your day ruined.

Mookie said...

So I have looked over some text of this law, and it clearly states, from hat I can tell is that the police can't just start yanking out hispanics from their daily life wihtout just cause....it more or less is saying if you are caught in a criminal act, or a suspect of said crime being held for questioning or whatever, including on a traffic stop, that they can now run a check on your status as a citizen or non-citizen, legal or illegal before letting you go (kind of like how they will not let you go from a traffic stop until they have clearly identified who you are as it is).

Granted, there will probably be a few cases of abusing the law and harassment ensuing, but I think we'd be naive to think that isn't already ocurring in all kinds of ways as it is. I'm not condoning the abuse, emrely stating it already exists in regards to other laws, and i cant see why this one would suddenly become an exception.

SO far the law hasn't gone into effect, so I guess its a wait and see game at this point, in order to gauge the execution of said law.

renaissanceguy said...

Obviously keeping the illegal aliens out makes the other issues moot. The Arizona law is an attempt to deal with the fact that the illegal aliens are here and are continuing to come.

I have lived in foreign countries. I have had to carry documents to prove my immigration status. For that matter, I have had to show my passport to re-enter the Unted States. We should expect nothing less of our "guests"--whether they are invited or not.